I'm starting this so Luckyguess, Chucky O'Duckman, and the SC Fundie Duo can argue their points without pissing off the mods.

Have at it, buckaroos.

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It was such a waste of everyone’s time and money that even the Tokyo stadium’s rape robots apologized– something they were programmed specifically never to do.

[quote]ChuckaDuck,

I don't quite understand your phrases in the first paragraph.[/quote]
Sounds like a personal problem to me.

Hole-E Chit is this ever amusing. A, you're the first and only Christian I've ever seen that had the balls to admit the Fall (where your ever-loving, ever-compassionate God created such horrible things to inflict unto Adam) severely harsh. Or you could wrap the last sentence up as, Flag Number One. I don't quite see why you bring Eve into this.......until I see you're blaming Adam's rebellion on her...oh, no, wait.......it's entirely women's fault, per you.... .....apparently. Odd. I'm reading as I type so you may indeed have the nerve to try and cover this point later, however until then let me mention once more. You say "the devil convinced". Again, you need to question the foresight of your "all-powerful being" who seems quite lacking in his abilities. There never should have been evil, nor Satan, if your views on God were at all accurate. You're take on the events of the Fall is both fundamental and childlike in its understanding. You somehow try to easily avoid any questions on the matter by ducking them altogether with claiming God + Adam & Eve is like Parents + Children. Way to leave the wet knife in front of the outlet of the two year old then, eh God? Dumbass. Your "loving" God that can do no wrong is a vindictive shite I must say. Let's review a little from my last post....

Just a couple of notes, but by all means read back through entirely. Ah, show me the love. Let's get onto this real quicklike...from my prior post...

Just because this "Satan" convinced the first two people to eat a fucking apple (DAMNATION TO THE APPLE BITERS!!!) doesn't mean they are suddenly sinful. They are the way God made them. They are flawed and "sinful" because of him. They have no reason to be held maliciously accountable for what He made of them.

He does not cry for he has nothing we call eyes. He's beyond this universe (note when I say things this way it's for the benefit of making a point and nothing more). At best he might "weep" or "mourn". But on the never forget us bit, the funny thing is this. I've noticed a popular rise in the fluff phrasing of "God created time, and now he's using it" in the way of why he's taking so long to get here as Jesus Christ once more ever since 2000 rolled by. Hmmmm.

Bullshit and you're on crack.

Awesome how you say "Paragraph", insert a number, then completely ignore the content to make some strawman of a comeback. And on your brethren. Well now, how would a guy like Jesus Christ feel about this recent occupation of the oil lands. Oh what's the phrase; Who Would Jesus Bomb? I think you and others like you try to hide behind supposed hopes and dreams that book of yours conjurs up, screaming blasphemy at the heights of your lungs capasity at "sinful living", then turn right around and do fucked up shit yourselves. Some on Friday nights, others everyday with bigotry.

Yeah, because despite us it's still alive. That's Earth. Not the light of the children, not God, not you, just nature.

The TRUTH is you're entirely ignoring my previous post. The same post that contains questions even pastors fall silent in the face in, or merely duck the questions like you have.

Then he's not all-powerful.

See how that works?

If you're somehow right (which you're not) then your Bible shows such has already happened. Such a waste of souls, provided you're right, which you're not.

Yeah, God's a lazy prick. Apparently.

...by showing how powerless he may be...

Damn right.

Which would bring back from the last post...well, the majority of it....

[quote]Does God not have the foresight to prevent a force that would affect his own creations in a way that would prevent them from going to his great beyond called Heaven? Did he really have to create Jesus to endure so much torture? Couldn't have done it a different way? Or done it sooner? Maybe even later? Another flood would've been good. Or here's a thought, He could have ended it all with Adam and Eve rather than letting this go on to an ugly point, which I'd hope you'd agree its at and has been off and on for, well, since Adam's little tantrum that screwed everybody EVER?

And whilst we're at it, let's cover the "fact" God permitted sin to take place and yet used it for good to ultimately glorify is His Son Jesus Christ. "Awuh", you say? Yup, Paul confirms this in Romans and it makes this entire thing sickening were it true. He PERMITS it but is in no way RESPONSIBLE for it? Is that what I'm reading? If God isn't to be held responsible for his creation Adam's sin, then we should not be accountable (none of us, from Adam's first child to the baby born in the time of your reading this and onward to all) for enduring an eternal punishment for something Adam did. You might argue, "Well fine then, are you stating yourself you're perfect therefore would not apply to the punishment of sin?" Not at all. I'm what the world has made me. I am the result of the people and beliefs I've encountered in my limited lifetime in a world that God created. And he did create all of this. Simply because something shows up later he supposedly didn't initially create doesn't make it "not his" or "not of him". Per you it was God that inflicted a life without his presence (the supposed cause of death, natural death of course as everything more is from diseases of his creation. while man may learn to unleash it, it's still there and his doing) and sent out his creations to suffer for not following his rules (a suffering that will continue for all time. Adam's in hell remember? Or is he the exception because....?) and gave the animals teeth and claws to cut and gnash at the flesh of humans.

You might say, "God knew that He would sacrifice Jesus to save us." Which in turn means he had the foresight to know that this would never work out and be perfect, so he knew he'd be creating sin and eternal damnation for those he knew would either not believe in a book written by men (whom bible thumping folks state are full of deceitful words themselves, wink, wink, nudge, nudge) or never know of how important the issue is. Where's my burning bush? I've led a good life. Where's my red sea? If all you say is true I surely don't want to burn for eternity (nice compassion there by the way) so if it's so important for Jesus to save my soul, why doesn't he visit me and have a chat so I can take his word for it over yours and over a book? Isn't a judgment to last an eternity worth that much?[/quote]

Only if he made it that way. He's all-powerful. I think you're not understanding the term and it's wrong application for the guy you call "God".

I think you're high.

But what do I have to be forgiven for? For being exactly what I am? God hates me because I don't fit his profile? WTF. HA! This is all too rich.

Why should I be punished in the first place?

I don't think so.

Codeine orgies have the same effect.

You just missed the bus. Destination; the point. Let's repost that last paragraph and see if a brain cell kicks in for you or something...

Got brain?

For those wondering, original link HERE.

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Don't like it? Eat me.

I'm speechless with admiration Chuckaduck. Your ability to argue the toss is awe inspiring.

It's all in the wrist...of the hand........in my pants...

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Don't like it? Eat me.

God is a kid with an ant farm. He built it, he put the people in, and now he just sits back and watches what happens. He has virtually no control over anything the inhabitants of his creation do, but he could destroy them all in a matter of moments.

*bows and quietly trots out*

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More lust than you can shake a stick at.

While that's a good metaphor to make one think, that's not at all the God written about in the Bible.

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Don't like it? Eat me.

[quote]ChuckaDuck,

I don't quite understand your phrases in the first paragraph.

Paragraph 2: Wow! this is strange, and you knew I was going to say something. Adams fall from grace was harsh, but just in the since that God told him you can eat of everything but this tree ( friut on the tree that is ). Adam although he had God with him was lonely, and as that result made adam a companion which was eve. You could say that this is where soulmate is from. So the devil convinced women to convince man to eat of the forbiden fruit. and the rest is pretty much punishment. God does love his creation, and we are his children, so do parents not punish there children for wrong doings. That is where Jesus comes in, he sent him to save us. Addam did have compassion and all that, but the devil's abilty to give Adam and Eve the boldness to eat the fruit hurt them. so that has to do with free will. And that perfection was lost when he ate the fruit.

Paragraph 3: God will never forget us, in fact he probably cries when his children sin. his miracle light is everywhere if look for it. see, God and his son spread their light to their children. My question to you is do think christians are different from others in terms of morales and actions ( talking about true believers ). The earth is another miracle. Just look for them. so the truth is that if you let him he talks to lost souls not the physical being that you see in front of you.

Paragraph 4: He is all powerful, but nothing could create this in a few minutes. God loves us and wouldn't let the devil take all his children therefore he went and told the only ritcheous( not spelled right) man to save himself of the flood, and if you read the bible it says the noah tried warning everyone he could but they didn't listen. you answered the fre will question, he wants us to love him willingly ( no robots ). he did see that satan would betray him your correct there. If someone is all powerful than the might of thier very presense would be to much. In short its all on Faith.

Paragraph 5: I think your messing with free will again. but if not please explain again. Jesus was a must to save us.

Paragraph 6: what scripture of romans have you read. free will again, so if you choose to sin it is your own doing, but Jesus is giveing you a chance to ask for forgiveness. No one is perfect of the result of Adam, but that is what forgiveness is for.

Paragraph 7: First of all, If you don't want to be tortured for eternity than why is it so difficult to get saved? Jesus speaks to you through others on salvation if they let him.

Final Paragraph: I look foward to when I die seeing, praising, and being in heaven with my King, Saviour, and Father in total happiness with no suffering. If he would have done that with Adam than you wouldn't have the chance to accept Jesus and go to heaven. Also your right we are bound to sin, but forgiveness is a powerful thing, so true believers are perfect ENOUGH.

do you understand, All of this is pretty much based on Faith in all that was written.

If there any other questions than just ask.[/quote]

This is too good. TOO damn good. Well, since you went to the trouble of numbering them, I'll respond in a similar way.

1. So your saying free will and boldness are evil? Nice. I have some Jewish friends who'd love to have a long talk with you about the goodness of conformity. About 6 million of them.

2. God cries? What a pansy. In terms of whether Christians act different than other religious groups, as a whole, no. We do get guys like you, however, who probably wouldn't eat candy canes if someone said they were anti-God. These same people are the ones that crucify (figuratively speaking) anyone who, in any context, defies some form of the bible (see the gays) despite the fact they may worship another faith and/or have none. Most christians are friendly, nice people who just want to have fun and enjoy life. But there will always be some who take the Bible too literally, and overstep their boundaries when speaking about it. Unfortunately this is usually people in a high ranking in the religious heiarchy. Until that ceases within organized religion, I'm keeping my distance.

Universal Truth: Faith is powerful. It can cause people to do incredible things and accomplish amazing feats of heroism and piety. Unfortunately, a side effect of this is that those who follow a faith are easily manipulated. Their good intentions are bent to the will of worldly powers, and thus the point is lost or forgotten amid a scheme for power and fame.

4. Why was Jesus a must to save us? What was he saving us from? According to your religion, and every other one ever, Hell still is around. People still go there. So, why did God's only son get tortured and killed? To save us from tax revenues? Gummy bears, popsicles, and rainbows? Diarrhea? Or did he save us from ourselves? Because if he did he really pulled it off. Millions of people die every year from domestic violence, firearm related and otherwise. People who didn't deserve it. Where was their savior? Did they get to save us from sin too?

5. My people wrote the old testament, ho. I may not be a practicing Jew, but I know what's in my own damn book. If you want forgiveness, you're supposed to get it like that, as long as you really want to. No divine court or Jesus trial by fire can change the words of the original. And humans were never perfect. We were crafted in God's image, not crafted as God. How fucked up would everything be if everyone just started creating universes? Adam was a side project.

6. Jesus speaks to you through others, eh? Why don't you sit next to me, Lancaster? I promise I won't bite.

Universal Truth: Organized religion boils down to this concept: A group of people whom faith has brought together under one individual is told by said individual to bomb, stab, shoot, rape, napalm, run over, melt or otherwise obliterate other small groups of people whom faith has brought together under one individual. And that isn't some farcical goth emo fantasy, either. Look in a history book- it happens all the time. It's happening now.

And finally: If your vision of eternal paradise is kissing God's cloudy ass, mine is going to be giving you rain swirlies.

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the kid's getting old, the kid's getting old

Forsooth! The Lord thy God shall smiteth upon thee for thine blasphemies. Verily, shall he pour out his fiery vengeance upon thee for thine inequities. Even unto the sons and stepsons of your son's grandsons, he shall cause thine household to be shatteth upon. And lo, there shall be much farting in the land.

That was directed at noone in particular.

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I was gonna send a robot back in time, but I got high.

I used to be quite Christian, until I came to a realisation:

God knows all, past present and future, in all places, right? Before the universe began he knew what would happen in its final seconds. This means that nothing surprises him, nothing ever comes out of left field.

This has serious moral repercussions for me. Before God makes a human being, he already knows every moment of that person's life. He knows all their failures, all their pain, all their sadness, and, mostly importantly, he knows if they'll end up in Heaven at the end of it all.

Now, you can talk all you like about free will and causality, but the fact is, God knew everything that would happen in your life before you ever existed. If he is a loving, just, and omnipotent deity, then this means he [u]chooses[/u] to leave us imperfect, he [u]chooses[/u] to make us sinful, and he [u]chooses[/u] to let us damn ourselves. He could avoid all of this - remember, Scripture tells us that God cannot abide sin, that he totally despises it. Why then does he let it happen and then punish it, rather than preventing it from happening in the first place?

"He can't make us do anything!" the fundies say. "We choose to sin, so it isn't his fault." This is untrue, though - he knows the sin is coming before it happens. He could send us divine signs, send an angel to warn us, or just create us better so we have free will but don't want to sin (and don't tell me he couldn't do that - he can do anything, remember).

So, something is wrong with this picture. God cannot be all of the following: a) loving, b) just, and c) omnipotent. If he were truly loving, he would use his omnipotence to save us from ourselves, or make us better people so we wouldn't need saving in the first place. If he were truly just he wouldn't set us up for failure, knowing in advance every misstep we would make and doing nothing to prevent it. If he were truly omnipotent he would have made the world a better place where shit like this just doesn't happen.

This leaves three options that I can see:

1) God is omnipotent and just (in his own twisted opinion of justice) but he doesn't love us.

2) God is omnipotent and loving, but he has no real concept of justice or fairness - basically, he's a sociopath.

3) God is loving and just, but although he is a big powerful divine being, he is not omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent.

There are also the "he doesn't exist at all" arguments, but I am convinced of some kind of benevolent deity, so I've settled on option 3 for now.

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This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

Blah blah blah.

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Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.

Jesus is dead, santa doesn't exist and neither do smart blondes. Full Stop.

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The dictator of love and his weapon of mass destruction

Call me cynical, but the idea of being coerced into a certain lifestyle and belief system by instilling the fear of going to "hell" seems just a smidge fascist to me. God can take his foot off the throats of his followers at any time now. Big bully.

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Think classy, you'll be classy.

Let's see if I have this straight.

The first humans live in a state of bliss, not knowing good from evil. The only thing they're forbidden is knowledge of good and evil. Then they partake of this knowledge and are punished for doing evil. But at the time that they partake of this knowledge, they don't know good from evil. They can only realize they've done evil after they've partaken of the forbidden knowledge. They're punished for having done evil when they could not possibly have grasped the concept of good or evil or known the difference.

MAKES SENSE! THANKS A MILLION, YAHWEH!

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Why is god, dog backwards?

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The dictator of love and his weapon of mass destruction

I'm not trying to interpret what you're saying. I'm pointing out that it's a little weird to punish creatures who don't know good from evil, and even weirder to punish them for getting the knowledge of good and evil that might have enabled them to make a moral choice in the first place. I mean that's a weird story, and it makes God sound a little crazy. Don't you think?

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I worship cats.

[quote]
Yes people will go to hell, those who don't accept Jesus( all has to do with salvation ) it says in the bible ( not exact words ) that Jesus is the one to talk to ( prayer ) to get to God.[/quote]

Yeah. It also has Jesus distinguishing between himself and the Father. And saying none is good but the Father. And telling people to pray to the Father. And telling people how to be "saved" without mentioning any of that stuff about having to go through Jesus to get to the Father.

Guess you can't believe the whole Bible all at once, eh?

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Guy: Let me tell you about salvation. (Tells about salvation.)

Chorus: That makes very little sense.

Guy: Zoom zoom zoom! (Exits.)

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What others say about boorite!

[quote]If you feel convicted than all you do is pray to Jesus repent ask him in and for foriveness. That is all I can do for you it is up to you now.
[/quote]

That's it? But if you're wrong, and Jesus isn't God, then praying to Jesus breaks a Commandment. Probably two Commandments (no gods before Him and no idolatry, maybe even throw in a Lord's name in vain). What you're encouraging could be a very grave error. So don't you think it merits a little more serious treatment than "hey pray to Jesus kthx bye?"

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